Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Everyday Redemption, a podcast of Perimeter Counseling. We believe God is at work in the ordinary moments of our lives, bringing healing, growth and redemption day by day. I'm your host, Caleb Martin. Join me along with my co host Kathy Chang as we talk with counselors and special guests about everyday struggles of life and how the gospel meets us in every season. Today we are joined by our senior pastor, Perimeter Church, Jeff Norris. Jeff, thank you for joining us.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. So we are talking today about social media and you might push the pause button right then because you've heard so many, maybe Christians talk about social media. Maybe you've had bad experiences with it, maybe you love it.
Not sure what your reaction is, but what really we're trying to do today, we are not social media experts. None of us have run a platform, created a platform or experts at any platform. Certainly we've used it and know people who have and do.
But what we're trying to do is what Christians have always done is how do you engage technology that's relevant with biblical wisdom and how do we guard our hearts, how do we engage well, how do we honor Christ? And that's what we want to talk about today.
So let me first though list off what we mean when we say social media. Now, this wasn't a deep dive search. This was actually just a Google search on what are the top 15 social media platforms today?
So you might disagree with this and that's okay, but we've got Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, TikTok, WeChat, Telegram. Facebook messenger is a different one than Facebook. I didn't know that.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: It is two different apps on my phone.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of annoying.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: I know.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Snapchat, Douyin, Is that right?
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Do what?
[00:01:57] Speaker A: It's the Chinese version of TikTok with extremely high engagement here we've got X, formerly Twitter, Snapchat. Nope, I already said that one. Reddit, LinkedIn, Pinterest and threads. And then I've got some honorable mentions here, Discord and even nextdoor.
So evidently there's at least 50 of these if you went on Google and Google. So anyway, I want to think about how do we wrestle with these? So, Jeff, you recently led our staff through a 21 day fast and it wasn't a requirement to fast from social media, but a lot of our staff did. I think you personally did.
Would you just talk to us about what prompted that fast for you, particularly from social media?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And I, I mean, just even hearing your list there, I think it might be helpful to clarify that for me, what I fasted from, which is in my mind what I thought was mostly all of what is out there. Social media. Like you're reading the list and I'm like, I didn't know some of those were even social media.
So the two that I am predominantly using day to day are Instagram and Facebook.
So you know, I will use X very sparingly and threads very sparingly.
So when I'm talking about fasting, I'm mainly just for context thinking about those two, Facebook and Instagram.
So yeah, you know, for me, I decided as we walked through that as a staff and I put that challenge in front of our staff, it was a no brainer for me to, for me to choose to do social media is the 21 day fast. And the reason for that is because I had for a while been sensing and feeling that it was getting a bit out of control for me personally.
Meaning that I felt like it had more of a hold on me than I had a hold on it where I found myself.
I mean, every time I had a spare moment, I was picking up my phone and without even thinking, the first thing that I'm doing is checking Facebook and Instagram just to, and then not even really knowing why. You know, it's like I would, I would go into scrolling mode and then go, okay, why, why am I, why did I pick it up? Why am I already here and what am I looking for? Yeah, you know, and so sometimes I would ask that question and it would be, well, I'm really wanting to know what's going on in others lives that I follow. And you know, okay, that's, that's somewhat reasonable. Understandable. That's fine. However, there were so many times that I was picking it up, I was like, I don't even think that's what I'm looking for. I think I'm looking, I think I'm just looking to be entertained. And I think I'm looking to fill the void of idle time, even if it's only a few minutes with something.
And then I go, oh, that is really not good. That's not healthy. We're not designed for that. God actually designed us for either moments or even lengthy periods of silence and quiet and alone with our thoughts.
And I think I was seeing in myself the increasing discomfort with quiet and alone with my thoughts and alone just even inviting the Lord into those spaces because I was so quick to fill it with the mindless scrolling. And so I just thought, man, I really, I need to address that.
And I think that I'm probably not the only one that needs to address that. So that's why, you know, like a thing like 21 day fast research behind that. And there's different research on this, but some suggest that when you do something for three weeks, it becomes a habit. Good or bad? Good habit, bad habit, depending on what the three weeks is. So I thought, okay, let's do this, let's do this. As a staff, and for me, social media was the easy choice.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I really appreciate just your awareness of your own habits. I feel like social media and just picking up our phones has become so habitual for us that we don't even really take any time at all to reflect on the that fact. Fact that we're doing that, let alone to assess whether it's good or bad or why we're looking at the things we're looking at.
So I love that you were thoughtful about that and said, let me think through how I should continue to use and to engage with this.
So maybe you could share with us from that time any just insights that you had, any personal reflections during those three weeks and even beyond.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: I mean, first and foremost, the biggest insight was it was very hard.
It got easier the longer I was into the three weeks. But there were just so many times that it was blatantly obvious that I had trained myself to do that, to pick up the phone anytime there was idle. And I'm literally, for those listening, I'm picking up my phone right now demonstrating how that's just. I mean, it's just so easy to do. And so there were so many times in the first week, probably well into the second week, where I'd pick it up and I'd unlock my lock screen and then I'd go, I don't have anything to do.
Yeah, yeah, I need to put it back down because there's nothing that I'm really gonna go. And. But. But I would say I also saw how easy it was to go to apps that I used to not really ever go to because Facebook and Instagram were there.
And so now I'm going to other apps and I'm like, okay, I used to never go to that app. Like, I don't.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: I don't totally did that too.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Like, I don't play games on my phone that much.
And I started playing games a ton.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: And it was just. And then I realized, oh, my, this is. Am I really growing from this? Because it's just a.
I'm replacing one filler with Another filler, or let's just call it what it is. We were talking before we started recording here that I think one of the healthiest things that we can do is admit, identify and admit and acknowledge that what most of us are struggling with when it comes to social media is a real addiction. And I'm totally willing to say that's what I had and what I still have that is just maybe in a bit better place now after three weeks, but it's still very much like any addiction. It's not like it just fully goes away.
And so to be able to just say, okay, I had or have an addiction because I've trained my brain to run to something that it thinks it needs in order to be at peace.
And so then the whole games thing, like I'm running to solitaire and I'm running to crossword puzzles. Cause I'm a middle aged man, I love crossword puzzles.
And those are good and fine. And I justify them by saying, well, these aren't bad and crossword puzzles are supposed to be great for your brain and all these kind of things. But I was filling one addiction with a potential second addiction. Now please hear me.
It's how we engage with those things that makes it addictive. Or not doing a crossword puzzle or even two or three a day, is that bad? Well, no, that's fine.
But is it something that you're running to, to fill empty spaces that God created you to have or to distract you from relational engagements that he's put in your life to have, but instead you're looking at a screen? Yeah, right. So, yeah, I think to answer your question, Kathy, I would just say, gosh, the biggest insight was I needed to say and recognize I am addicted to opening my phone and scrolling Instagram and Facebook.
And it was a problem.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: I have this vivid memory a couple years ago of having a little argument with Katie about something. And she was in the other room and it was, it was late in the evening and I was like, wanted to watch TV or something, but. And we usually. This is combining some, some fillers here that I'm gonna give an example. So I was, I was obviously emotionally frustrated because I probably, probably didn't do something I was supposed to do. And you know, as a husband, I felt like it didn't come through or something. So I was kind of frustrated with myself probably.
But what I did was I grabbed. We actually happened to have some Pop Tarts and I had some. I like a strawberry Pop tart.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: I'll tell you what those are fantastic.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: For some reason, if I want a good dessert and a treat, that's what I want. And then I had. I was on X and I just wanted to look at sports stuff. And so I am constantly disappointed because I'm a Georgia Tech sports fan. So I was just looking at how I can be disappointed. But somehow, you know, I was running to that. But I was opening a second bag of like Pop Tarts and I was, I just kind of stopped myself and I'm like, alright, alright, what am I doing here?
Not crazy, like pretty harmless, but.
And I just kind of put the phone down and I was like, lord, I'm really, I'm really frustrated and I'm sad. Would you meet me in this moment? And it's not, you know, that's not like I think the reason I share that because you're talking about going to something when you're trying to fill a void when maybe it's. You're tired. Maybe it's positive stuff, maybe it's just whatever it is, there's some kind of emotional thing that I'm trying to get off of me or fill. And for me it was Twitter and a Pop Tart.
But recognizing that in a moment, I think was a good insight for me. Like, I do this when I'm uncomfortable.
I don't know. Does that kind of resonate some with.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: What you're talking about, filling that gap and whether it's.
It doesn't have to be a negative emotion, but it could just be time.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think too there's.
I would imagine, and you guys as counselors would know better than I do, but I would imagine there's good research out there on the psychological aspect of it, of how you probably are trying to. And of course the spiritual implications too, of, you know, there's something deeper going on within you that you're looking for, searching for a deep desire. You're trying to meet that just like anything good or bad, we can run to, to meet that need or convince ourselves that it will meet that need. So we'll do it with food, we'll do it with, you know, what we do with our phones. We'll do it with all kinds of things.
And really what we're longing for is like, you know, I was thinking, as you shared, I was like, yeah, we're. You were wanting the Pop Tart to do what only Jesus could do. Right. Like, and so like not to over spiritualize it, but also to properly appropriate the reality of who Christ is.
You know, I have rarely Found myself, if ever, disappointed, when I invite Jesus into those moments because he is faithful and he does meet us there.
And sometimes the meeting us there is not so much an immediate sense of peace and assurance and fulfillment, but what he fills that void with or that, you know, so you've got. All of a sudden, you have five minutes and you go, okay, I'm going to spend these five minutes looking at my phone.
But instead you put the phone down and say, jesus, I just want to be attuned to what you want me to do right now instead of mindless whatever.
And I think about around here at the office. So we're recording this at the church.
Sometimes I have these little breaks in between meetings or in between whatever I'm working on. And sometimes I'll. If I will put my phone down and walk out into the hallway and then just kind of with an expectant attitude or mindset or heart posture that says, jesus, who might you have for me in these five minutes? Or maybe you want you to use me to bless someone in five minutes, in these five minutes, as opposed to me just sitting at my desk looking at my phone and seeing how he'll meet that and. And I'll end up having a conversation. I'm like, man, I'm so glad I did that. Otherwise I'd have been scrolling, you know, stupid videos on Instagram and laughing at nonsense, you know, like.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
That's really helpful. And it. Well, it brings.
God is in the pop Tart moments. God is in the moment in the hallway.
And he's not just in the moment where we studying our Bible at the beginning of the day.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: We're praying.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: He's in every moment and cares about every moment. So it's not a social media is bad do this. It's how do we. How is God there? And what is he calling me to right now? That's a question we always have to ask, right?
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: I mean, I think about even my own experience, and we've kind of talked about different things that drive us to social media. I think for me, sometimes there's a couple of things. Sometimes boredom, which we've kind of touched on, and just being uncomfortable with that boredom and feeling maybe a need to do something instead of just being present and asking the Lord what He would have me do. I think another driver for me sometimes is a desire for omniscience, which I feel like social media makes us feel
[00:15:50] Speaker B: like we can have.
[00:15:52] Speaker C: And so if I have a minute, I'm gonna catch up on what people are doing. I'm gonna catch up on news feeds, things like that. And it's becoming more and more of a reality for me that we were never meant to know everything.
And, you know, at the heart of that is kind of, you know, what is sin is our desire to be God.
And so for me, you know, I find that's. That sometimes that's what's driving me. And my example is sometimes I go pick up my daughter from school and I have to get there early because the parking lot's a mess.
And I'm one of the parents that parks and gets out of the car because the line is horrible. So I get out and I'm standing there and there's all these other parents and we're all looking at our phones and just, you know, I'm not even looking at anything important.
And so there have been those days, and more recently now, where I intentionally will put my phone away and maybe I'll talk to another parent if someone's available. And even if not, I will actually just stop and look at the trees around the parking lot and kind of take a deep breath and just be reminded that God is the God of creation and that he's put me there in that moment. So that's my personal experience of what I do in those moments.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: I know we need to not make this last forever, but however, I got to tell the story. So during that, one of our staff, during that three week period, one of our staff came up to me and it was in the third week. And so this person was also towards the end of the fast, and they came up just to thank me for having us do this, because he said, I used to every morning.
And I hate to admit it, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I would get on my phone before I would open my Bible and I would go to a certain news app and read the headlines for that morning. And then I would honestly check it throughout the day.
And I found, I realized, and I didn't realize until I did this fast, how anxious and angry that was making me every day.
And I always justified it. This was his language. I always justified it by wanting to be in the loop and in the know with current events.
But to your point, Kathy, it's like sometimes we can just know too much that we were actually not designed to know. I mean, you think about before the age of smartphones, and even if you want to go back to before the age of instant media or day of media, where even when I'm a kid, you come home and what do you do? You come home from work and you turn on the six o' clock news. Right. That kind of thing.
You just didn't know what happened in the world that day.
And that was okay. And you might hear about it two or three days later whenever the newspapers published it or whatever. But then you even go way back to how society function. For millennium millennias, you lived in a village and you knew what happened in that village, period. And you might know what happened in the village nearby, but you certainly didn't know what was happening across an ocean or even in another state over or another territory over.
And it's like this. Over information is killing us and creating what ends up being for some really devastating anxiety and anger.
And that social media is absolutely feeding that right to where we just know too much and we weren't designed to know everything. Yeah.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: And it's like when you know about something and are concerned about something and can't actually do anything to solve it, that does create some anxiety.
And it's appropriate to have concern and to take those things to prayer.
But I think it's a principle we don't think about too, is we're impressionable people. And so what we do, Paul says in Galatians 5, you sow, do righteousness, you reap righteousness, you sow, do unrighteousness, and you reap unrighteousness.
The Hebrew understanding was always, you're on a path either to righteousness or unrighteousness. And that was the way they thought about life. So there is no.
Paul Miller talks about this in A Loving Life.
We operate by the Las Vegas principle. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
And we operate like that in all these little micro areas. Like if I just look at this or do this, it's not going to affect me, but it actually does.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: And I think it's. This is what we're seeing. Like you just take a week off of social media and you realize I'm a little bit less angry than I was and. Or it creates opportunity to engage with
[00:20:40] Speaker B: people and you realize I really don't need to know everything that's happening in the world. Right, right. Like it's okay if I don't. Like, of course we want to be engaged to the level that we. That's necessary and healthy. But at the same time, what we think is necessary and healthy is actually not.
It's too much. Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: So I was curious. This isn't on our list to talk about here, but we've talked about how it affects us. We've not talked about communication with other people on those platforms. What does healthy communication like that look like?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Do you mean like making comments in the. Like on a post?
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's tricky, right? Because how do you do that? I genuinely feel like maybe there's people who, they do post something to bless others and there's comments and that can just get.
It gets tricky.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it can be very tricky. I'll just share with you kind of what my own personal.
What would the word be?
Rule. If you want to call it that.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Or just like how I practice my personal practice of. On social media.
I personally don't make any comments on any social media. Facebook, Instagram, whatever.
X.
Except for wishing people happy birthday on Facebook. Such a. Such a middle aged, middle aged person thing to do. Right.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: I'll be looking for it, Jeff.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: That's right. That's right.
You know, happy birthday or congrats on your anniversary. That's awesome. You know those kind of things. Right now that's literally all I'll comment on. Like if I see someone put. Now if a friend posts something really good, like in terms of a post about what they're learning in their walk of the Lord, like, bro, this is great. Thanks. You know, thanks for sharing this, you know, those kind of things. But I'm not going to engage.
My personal rule is I'm not going to engage with anyone about something that would be so much better to talk about in person. Right. So that could go off the rails or could get controversial or that could hurt feelings or we may disagree, those kind of things. I just don't think it's worth it. I've said this. Y' all have heard me. The two of you have heard me say this often.
I have. Yet I'm still looking for it. And sometimes I will actively look for it. I've yet to find a comment section correspondence over a debated topic where someone changes someone else's mind.
Yeah, it doesn't happen.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Like it just doesn't happen.
Just posturing. Yeah. And it's just this weird.
I mean, think about what we're doing in that moment. Like how weird it would have been pre social media.
It's like, hey, I am going to share a comment and then you and I are going to go out into a public forum and debate it in front of everyone.
And I'm not gonna budge. And you're not gonna budge and everyone else is gonna watch. It's like, okay, no. Who would do that? That is so weird right now. Unless it's a Political debate or something like that.
And yet we accept it in that forum. And it gets so toxic and gets so unhelpful. And then what really breaks my heart and what should break all of our hearts is the amount of things that are accepted within Christian discourse.
That's really not discourse, but more defamation within the comment sections of social media and the things that we will say on a keyboard that we would never say in person.
And so I just think it's ultimately unhelpful and even often toxic.
And so if I could.
I just want to get extreme here. And of course, I've told Perimeter Church this before. If I could convince every Christian everywhere to stop commenting and even posting political stuff and different things on. If I could convince every Christian to stop doing that, I think we would be in an infinitely better place because it doesn't change anyone's mind.
You know, like, last thing I'll say is if. If you can show me a post, and I don't know that there's one out there, but even if there's one. Okay, if you can show me consistently posts where someone makes some great argument over a political or social something and someone comments, thank you for posting this. You completely changed my mind.
Then I'll get off my soapbox.
But until then, I am on this soapbox.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: But even though that's one of a million who have.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Well, I was telling Kathy and Jeff earlier that I knew there was a TED Talk that I watched at one point regarding voice and the power of speaking in person. I think this is it. But Monica Hines TED Talk emphasizes the voice as a powerful tool for compassion. So vocal tone shift interactions.
You can shift interactions from conflict to empathy when you're speaking in person. That's why it's so important. We talk about this a lot in counseling or when you're having a hard conversation, at least pick up the phone. But if at all possible, do it in person.
Because there's a back and forth. But there's actually something goes on physiologically when you hear someone's voice, which is pretty cool how God's designed us. And also kind of makes sense why it's so difficult when you just see words and you don't hear a voice and you're not really seeing the embodied soul in front of you, that you just are tempted to just treat this person less than a human. And I think that's what we're doing is we're taking an image bearer. We're seeing. Well in this moment, it kind of takes over and we treat them less
[00:26:32] Speaker B: than if they're just type words on a computer screen or on a phone.
It is so easy to dehumanize that person.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: And to say, my job is to, you know, win this argument, destroy their argument rather than listen.
And any healthy engagement, we know this to be true. Right. Any healthy conversation, even if it's a conflict, a conversation around some, some type of conflict, the healthiest component to that conversation is both parties being able to listen to one another and say, hey, I haven't thought about that. That's helpful.
Even though I don't agree with the overall position you're taking, I do appreciate how you shared that. Right.
That's completely lost.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think about even the order of. It's like we're created with dignity and in the image of God, Christian or non Christian, now everybody's created image of God. And as Christians, we should actually be trying to humanize people.
So instead of just, of course, you know, people are going to behave like non Christians or even our fellow Christians, we try to. Our first step should be to treat them like image bearers. And so that's just a good principle.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: I keep thinking of things that are keeping you all from asking questions that we plan to talk about. So I'm sorry, but I do think what we're seeing happen is because of the online discourse.
And again, I would guess there's some good study being done on this out there. I'd love to see it if so, but. But because of the online discourse, that toxicity is being brought into real life, human, you know, conversations, we're seeing more than I think ever the lack of dignity being displayed between humans in real life because they've gotten so used to the lack of dignity displayed to one another in the online forum. So therefore it carries over to the public, to the real public forum.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And I even think about Tim Keller used to talk about with apologetics, like dealing with people with issues, maybe you disagree and trying to see convince them from a biblical worldview. He would always say, you want to argue the person's position better as good or better than they can.
And then you might show how God is a better solution, you know, but that's such a great way because in that you actually have to think, you have to actually put yourself in that person's shoes. And that takes a lot of effort to know that they're a smart human being, they've thought about things. So I think we've lost some of that.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Totally, totally.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: I'm going to kind of Help us wrap up here as we move towards ending.
One thing that I'm thinking about is, you know, the things that we're talking about, kind of the discourse and the anger that we see a lot that is partially specific to a certain demographic. We're a little bit older. A lot of the things that we're seeing are political or governmental or world news types of things.
I also come as, and all of us come with the perspective of parents as well. And our kids are probably looking at social media for different reasons. That's right, entertainment.
There's things that go with that as well, kind of comparison and all of that thing, all of that, that happens across the spectrum of ages. And so as we wrap up here, we wanted to give you, Jeff, just a moment to speak as our pastor, as the pastor of Perimeter Church. Thinking about your people.
Are there things that you would want to share?
Are there things that you would want to say about social media broadly or maybe just some key principles that you would want to leave us with.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: So, you know, years and years ago I came across someone who was teaching that, you know, you can kind of remember three R's as it pertains to what do we do? What is the Christian to do with how we engage the world out there?
And so the three Rs are, you can, you can fully reject whatever it is because it's, there's nothing about it that's, that's redeemable, right? Do you go, okay, that just is in and of itself sinful and wicked and there's just nothing there that Christians need to be engaging with. So you know, certain activities that exist in the world, you know, that you just go, okay, that's a no brainer.
You can, the second R is you can receive it as is.
It's not overtly Christian or spiritual, but it's also not sinful or wrong. It just is what it is, right? Like, you know, is it wrong for Christians to play sports? Well, no, you can play sports, that's fine, receive it, play it, play it to the glory of God, right?
There's all kinds of examples we can, could use where it's like, okay, there's it is what it is, just receive it as is. The other is it is what it is, reject it as is.
But the third, and this is where Christians have to do hard work, is discerning and deciphering. Okay, what are those things out there that I shouldn't receive them as they are, nor should I reject them wholesalely, whole, you know, wholly as they are.
But we should really work to redeem them.
Like, how do we press the reality of the redeemed heart and the redeemed life through Christ into those places and spaces in situations? So if you think about that in the context of social media, you go, okay, what does it look like for the Christian to enter that space, but with a mindset of redemption? Because social media can be really good.
Right. I mean, there's great ways to. I keep in touch with people that I graduated from high school with that I would otherwise never talk to. Right, right. Don't have their phone number, don't have any other way. But yet it's really cool to see updates from them and go, oh man, that's fun. You know, and send a couple of quick messages. Facebook messenger, which again, why is it a different app? I don't know. But you know, and hey, I'm so excited to see that little Johnny graduated from high school. That's great, congrats, you know, that kind of thing.
But then also, how can we seek to redeem in those spaces, but then also be an example of what that looks like to the watching eyes of the many people who are followers and friends in those spaces that don't know Jesus?
So it's also, it can be a witness as well.
And then, and then you have to think about what are the social media apps that aren't redeemable?
Right. Like, are there some apps out there? And some of this is personal conviction versus across the board. Like, there are some parents that will not let their children have Snapchat, which you go, okay, that's. If that's your conviction, that's great. But you're determining that for my kids. I just don't see that there's enough there that's, that's in the, the category of redeemable. It's more, let's reject that for now and maybe forever. Right? I don't know. You know, they can decide when they're adults, but as long as they're under my roof, they're not going to have it. Right?
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: So I think that's a helpful grid to think through and for the Christian to have the mindset that we've talked about of like, what am I going to do with social media? But then when I do engage with it, what is that going to look like?
Because people do watch in the very same way. Okay. I want the Christian listening to this to think about this in the very same way that you watch what your non Christian friends post on Facebook and Instagram and what they talk about and how they view this and how they view that. And then you make judgments of them based on their posts and in their interactions and their comment section and all that. Do you not think they're doing the very same thing with you?
So if you're to be a light, right, you are salt and light. That doesn't change in the least once you're online, once you're on a social media app.
So those are the ways that I would say for the Christian man, we got to be really intentional and thinking very strategically about this for our own souls and hearts, but also for our witness.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: That is really helpful. I love it.
That reject or receive but really redeem. Is this redeemable? I love that principle. There's more to say. We'd love to probably talk for two more hours. We probably could. There's way more to say. Jeff, thank you for joining us.
And if you've got questions, certainly we're always available@ permanent counseling.org and would love to have you. If you're not, if you're around north Atlanta, come visit our church. Come visit Perimeter Church.
So thanks for joining us today. Look forward to being with you guys next time.
